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Post by cherokeewarrior on Aug 28, 2009 0:41:56 GMT -5
Whatever happened to Denahi andSitka in the second movie? Not even the brother who is a spirit is mentioned?
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Post by Ken'ichi on Aug 28, 2009 9:15:01 GMT -5
At the beginning of the movie Kenai and Koda woke up from hibernation near the Salmon Run, and they ventured to the opposite direction of Kenai's village.
Denahi became the new Shaman of their village, so they both went their seperate ways. Not much of a stretch believing he doesn't show in the movie (Since Kenai is nowhere near his village in the sequel) or even mentioned.
As for Sitka, he did his job in the first movie and probably went back to the Northern Lights to rest in peace. Though of course even at the end of the first movie you see his eagle before the credits roll. He could've gotten away with a cameo as an eagle or even a mention in the second movie considering he was an important character in the first one.
Either Kenai is focusing on his new life as a bear and keeping them a secret from the other bears, or Disney got lazy.
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Post by Epesi on Aug 28, 2009 12:03:01 GMT -5
I don't recall if it was actually stated that Denahi became shaman. It may be implied that he would eventually, but I don't recall any explicit statements. Anyway, I don't think he was quite ready yet, but possibly in training by that time.
Canon nitpicking aside, I think Ken'ichi got it right as far as the characters' reasons go. Sitka has no reason to interfere at this point and Denahi is miles away and has to live his own life.
As for why the creators didn't put them in, I wouldn't say it was laziness. There were probably a lot of reasons -- time, money, lack of importance to the plot. If they had any lines, they'd have to go to the trouble of casting them and of course the actors would be another expense; even a non-speaking cameo would consume some resources. Another reason might even have been that it could confuse some viewers. "Wait, who are these people?" "Hey, I know them -- but where were they earlier?"
Basically, they were unnecessary so they were left out. It's a little disappointing, but I don't really fault the filmmakers for their decision. It's logical.
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Akilina
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Post by Akilina on Aug 30, 2009 17:34:47 GMT -5
Disney was lazy and didn't pay attention whatsoever to the first film.
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Post by cherokeewarrior on Aug 30, 2009 21:40:52 GMT -5
At the beginning of the movie Kenai and Koda woke up from hibernation near the Salmon Run, and they ventured to the opposite direction of Kenai's village. Denahi became the new Shaman of their village, so they both went their seperate ways. Not much of a stretch believing he doesn't show in the movie (Since Kenai is nowhere near his village in the sequel) or even mentioned. As for Sitka, he did his job in the first movie and probably went back to the Northern Lights to rest in peace. Though of course even at the end of the first movie you see his eagle before the credits roll. He could've gotten away with a cameo as an eagle or even a mention in the second movie considering he was an important character in the first one. Either Kenai is focusing on his new life as a bear and keeping them a secret from the other bears, or Disney got lazy. I just rewatched the second movie and it seems at the end when Nita turns into a bear there is an eagle flying around so I can only assume that is Sitka. And also the guy who plays the flute at the end sort of looks like Denahi.
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Post by Ken'ichi on Aug 31, 2009 17:05:33 GMT -5
At the beginning of the movie Kenai and Koda woke up from hibernation near the Salmon Run, and they ventured to the opposite direction of Kenai's village. Denahi became the new Shaman of their village, so they both went their seperate ways. Not much of a stretch believing he doesn't show in the movie (Since Kenai is nowhere near his village in the sequel) or even mentioned. As for Sitka, he did his job in the first movie and probably went back to the Northern Lights to rest in peace. Though of course even at the end of the first movie you see his eagle before the credits roll. He could've gotten away with a cameo as an eagle or even a mention in the second movie considering he was an important character in the first one. Either Kenai is focusing on his new life as a bear and keeping them a secret from the other bears, or Disney got lazy. I just rewatched the second movie and it seems at the end when Nita turns into a bear there is an eagle flying around so I can only assume that is Sitka. And also the guy who plays the flute at the end sort of looks like Denahi. OK, so it's probably that Sitka got a little cameo in. As for the flute man, wasn't he at the beginning when Nita was about to marry Atka?
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Bruno
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Post by Bruno on Sept 21, 2009 12:36:16 GMT -5
woohoo, I almost forgot to mention something about that flute guy, I had it in mind a few months ago.
I can't really say for sure, but at the beginning of Tina Turners song: "Great Spirits" you could see a man playing flute while other villagers are preparing the ceremony, or it might be at the end when Kenai can finally place his mark on the wall and the party is on the loose.
What I'm saying is that this character looks almost the same like the man playing flute in brother bear 2. I don't think that it's Denahi anyway.
About the eagle, well we all perhaps want to see "Sitka" in it, but there are lots of different animals up there in the Northern Lights, and even more there were more Eagle's in it. As it COULD be, but not for sure.
Last but not least, in the beginning of Brother Bear 1 you saw Denahi when he was at quite some age, that does not mean that he's the shaman now. But I think that he was a very good choice to start the movie with, because he was important to it.
As Sitka and Denahi returned in many role plays, which are just as much amusing as seeing the film again.
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Post by Epesi on Sept 22, 2009 0:05:43 GMT -5
It's true that there are many other eagle spirits (and ordinary eagles, for that matter), but I'm certain it was intended to represent Sitka.
As for Denahi, that's basically what I was trying to say. He was the one telling the story because he was there and it was personal to him; there's no evidence for or against him being the new shaman. It's only fanon (an idea created by fans), but it's not a bad idea.
I thought the flute player looked the same too, but that's probably a result of using that scene for reference as opposed to actually being the same character. I did notice that a few bits of animation were practically lifted from the first movie, such as Koda running away just before the avalanche scene; if I recall, it's identical to a shot from the No Way Out sequence, only flipped in the opposite direction.
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Anya
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Post by Anya on Sept 30, 2009 5:23:53 GMT -5
Having read this, I understand a little better that they weren't in the movie. But anyway I still think that it would've been nice if they had been at least mentioned, for example Kenai telling Nita something about his brothers. After all, there isn't shown any interaction between her and them - but sure Sitka and Denahi have met her too when they all were kids since she and Kenai were playing together.
Talking about questions, I have one, too. I hope you don't mind that I post it here even though it has nothing to do with this other question. In BB2, after the It Will Be Me -scene, we see Kenai sitting on the shore, gazing at the water, and he gently touches the surface with his claw. I've always wondered if the gesture had some specific meaning. I guess it has to mean something since it was shown. Do you others have any possible explanations?
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Bruno
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Post by Bruno on Sept 30, 2009 8:31:00 GMT -5
Hmm that's quite some interesting question you have there. I was very touched by the song and how Kenai sat there by the river, just like BB1 when the sun goes up just before Koda jumps on Kenai's back on that hill. Therefor I think that touching the water gently created a very sad environment, that Disney used it has one of those factors to lay quite some emotion on the scene.
Your question maked me that curious about possible meanings of the scene that I looked up some things.
As for example, touching water has a spiritual meaning of "cleaning your soul". We had seen in Brother Bear that Kenai was really sorry to Koda for what had happend. Nita asking him if he ever taught of changing back, followed by the scene of burning the amulet seems me like some prety heavy emotional influence on Kenai, with that and the reason that he can't be with her (at that surtain time) seems me like he could be emotionally effected by all of that again.
It's quite farfetched, anyway this is how I look at it for the moment.
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Anya
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Post by Anya on Oct 2, 2009 9:55:46 GMT -5
So you mean that he was so overwhelmed by all this that he needed to "clean his soul" - and that's why he touched the water? That's quite interesting, and I think it would explain the gesture rather well.
When I saw the scene for the first time, I thought something like he touches the water and imagines seeing Nita's reflection there.. but I don't know.. Sometimes it has also reminded me of the scene in Pocahontas when Grandmother Willow explains Pocahontas and John about the ripples.
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Bruno
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Post by Bruno on Oct 2, 2009 14:26:06 GMT -5
Well by a manner of speaking, I think the direct words of "cleaining the soul" is farfetched, but as a moment of clearity, as trying to get rid of sad taughts by doing so. I don't think that Disney would try to give Kenai a kind of spiritual mind thinking factor or something, it might be, but what I was thinking, why would Disney add that, perhaps I'm making it to complicated than it actually is.
Therefor I think it's just a way of making the scene more sad, or at least one of the factors doing so. You say that you might saw Nita in it sparkling for a second? I"ll try to freeze the surtain moment, perhaps I might notice something.
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Post by Epesi on Oct 2, 2009 18:02:17 GMT -5
I think she just meant that Kenai might have imagined it, not that it was on screen.
I don't know much about symbolism myself, but I figured it was just an idle action; he's lost in thought, reflecting on things and feeling depressed, and he plays with the water in front of him without any purpose but to watch it move. I don't know, but in my experience, depression is a lot like boredom. XD
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Anya
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Post by Anya on Oct 4, 2009 8:44:58 GMT -5
I think she just meant that Kenai might have imagined it, not that it was on screen. Yes, that's what I meant, actually. And thinking about this further.. yeah, I think that this creating the sad atmosphere -thing might be more logical from Disney than the spiritual meaning. Because not everyone can know about the possible symbolism. I didn't either xD So perhaps the gesture itself didn't have any specific symbolism; he was doing it because he felt like doing so, but it was shown to make the scene seem sadder.. And yeah, he is obviously rather depressed.
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Nayla-Naylie
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Post by Nayla-Naylie on Sept 1, 2011 2:33:52 GMT -5
It's always such a big bother to me that not neither one of Kenai's brothers could at least make a single cameo appearance or get mention at all. Cause if I go back and look at the sequel (heaven help me if I ever dare myself to sit through it once more out of boredom, I am gonna regret it! : and then return back to the original one, then I'll be going "Where the heck where these two when we needed them!?!?" It's funny when I look back on those scenes, such as the part where Kenai is telling Koda that he'll never leave him cause he's his brother, but he also did mention by saying "I do miss SOME things!" Some things? I'm guessing he's sorta implying his old life like his hometown village, his memories and other stuff. I still believe it's a possible chance that we might of seen Sitka making a short part on his behalf during Nita's transformation scene.
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